Excellent analysis! I am a classically trained musician but had never taken the processes apart and looked at the parallels, though I think having a musician's ear helps with appropriating the accent, pitch, and melody of a non-native language.
Great writing. I believe it was in Gabriel Wyner's book ' Fluent Forever ' that he discussed how opera singers (like himself) learn to sing pieces written in a foreign language and master the accent, etc.
One technique he mentioned involves learning a sentence backwards, i.e. starting with the last part and working back towards the beginning. I think it would work best doing this not word by word, but rather in short phrases as you describe.
Most people probably learn phrases in the correct order, but he describes the disadvantage of this method; namely that you are most confident with the often repeated beginning but less sure in which direction the rarely completed phrase is heading.
Using his 'learning backwards' technique means that as long as you can get past the start you have greater confidence as you progress through the sentence.
This reminded me of practicing playing really difficult musical phrases both backwards and forwards until I felt at ease with them.
Thanks for your kind remarks, and for the interesting perspective on Wyner's book (which I'll have to hunt down now) and your own practicing! I'm glad to hear my thoughts on the matter resonated with you!
I'm all for vocabulary lists -- I think they work for most people. As for music analogies, I have perfect pitch and also spent years of my life studying music, but somehow it never turned into a decent French accent. It may have facilitated my oral comprehension though.
In that my current life is in its last chapters, I am making notes for my next one. Learning music, how to code and speaking multiple languages seem like worthy and enjoyable goals. Or, I may just enjoy being my wife's puppy. Some suggest that we have multiple lives and continue on from one to the next. Perhaps ultimately I can do all of the above :)
Thanks Bill. The nice thing about retirement is, you have a lot of choices. We lived in a community in Arizona that drew a lot of retirees, many were from the business world and couldn't stand not running a business ... so they started new ones. Me, I'm glad to be trying to set aside the American work ethic that was ground into me for so many years. Language study has been a long-time interest and now, living in France, it's also very practical to enjoy it. And music was my first real passion. I'm sure you'll find new activities; writing seems to be one that you could continue and develop further, for example!
Excellent analysis! I am a classically trained musician but had never taken the processes apart and looked at the parallels, though I think having a musician's ear helps with appropriating the accent, pitch, and melody of a non-native language.
So interesting! Thanks for sharing this. I never thought of it like that.
Great writing. I believe it was in Gabriel Wyner's book ' Fluent Forever ' that he discussed how opera singers (like himself) learn to sing pieces written in a foreign language and master the accent, etc.
One technique he mentioned involves learning a sentence backwards, i.e. starting with the last part and working back towards the beginning. I think it would work best doing this not word by word, but rather in short phrases as you describe.
Most people probably learn phrases in the correct order, but he describes the disadvantage of this method; namely that you are most confident with the often repeated beginning but less sure in which direction the rarely completed phrase is heading.
Using his 'learning backwards' technique means that as long as you can get past the start you have greater confidence as you progress through the sentence.
This reminded me of practicing playing really difficult musical phrases both backwards and forwards until I felt at ease with them.
Summary: I agree with your points!
Thanks for your kind remarks, and for the interesting perspective on Wyner's book (which I'll have to hunt down now) and your own practicing! I'm glad to hear my thoughts on the matter resonated with you!
Well said. Thank you.
Thanks Marlene
I'm all for vocabulary lists -- I think they work for most people. As for music analogies, I have perfect pitch and also spent years of my life studying music, but somehow it never turned into a decent French accent. It may have facilitated my oral comprehension though.
Another fascinating letter, John.
In that my current life is in its last chapters, I am making notes for my next one. Learning music, how to code and speaking multiple languages seem like worthy and enjoyable goals. Or, I may just enjoy being my wife's puppy. Some suggest that we have multiple lives and continue on from one to the next. Perhaps ultimately I can do all of the above :)
Thanks Bill. The nice thing about retirement is, you have a lot of choices. We lived in a community in Arizona that drew a lot of retirees, many were from the business world and couldn't stand not running a business ... so they started new ones. Me, I'm glad to be trying to set aside the American work ethic that was ground into me for so many years. Language study has been a long-time interest and now, living in France, it's also very practical to enjoy it. And music was my first real passion. I'm sure you'll find new activities; writing seems to be one that you could continue and develop further, for example!